采访时间：2010年8月
采访地点：2010上海世界博览会印度馆
特邀嘉宾：D. R. Naidu　　印度馆设计师
特邀记者：Andy Hou　　国际木文化学会志愿者

采访实录

Andy：这位是Naidu先生，印度展示馆的设计师。我是Andy，在这里采访Naidu先生以便了解更多关于印度馆信息。想请教您的第一个问题是，印度馆为何选竹子为建筑材料？

Naidu：我一开始就构想着一个圆顶的设计。为什么要用圆顶建筑？因为中国和印度有一个共同的纽带，就是佛教方面的纽带。印度馆的设计灵感来自于印度著名的桑奇佛塔，所以我们使用了和桑奇佛塔一样的比例。我们非常想做这样一个圆顶建筑。当最终决定去做之后，我们尝试了很多种材料，比如赤陶土或者纸管等等，最后想到了竹子。因为我们想用一种可持续的而且在中印两国都非常常见的材料，这种材料必须十分充足，以方便我们大规模的使用。当然，这是一个挑战，因为还没有人用竹子去做这么大的一个建筑物。

　　使用竹子建造的方案制定之后，我们做了大量的计算，确定这是可行的。因为这是没有先例可以参考的。为什么一定要用竹子？因为中国有很多的竹子，印度也是。我们两国都有着用竹子搭建房屋和小桥的历史。中国使用竹子作为建筑材料的历史也由来已久。此外，我们也建立一个专家团队，所以我们请到了哥伦比亚的Simon Velez先生，他是知名的利用竹材的建筑师，我们的工作得益于他的帮助和指导。

　　这个建筑的基本理念是做一个篮子，一个超级篮子。在印度，这种圆顶建筑特别常见，比如著名的泰姬陵，印度的各个首府城市也有很多圆顶建筑。所以我们认为这和中国的文化联系非常大——竹材和佛教圆顶建筑。

　　竹子来源于当地产的竹子。因为可持续的概念就是使用当地的材料，越近越好。所以我们要采用印度有，并且上海附近也有的材料。这就是选用竹子的另外一个原因。安吉距离上海大约两个半到三个小时车程，竹资源非常丰富。此外，竹材是非常理想的建筑材料，它的强度以及直径的宽度都符合我们的要求。我们要用100毫米宽直径的竹材，这样墙体的厚度和距离就能保证整个建筑的强度。竹材的弯曲是我们经历的另一步试验，我们在安吉的一个工厂里完成这一步骤。实际上这个工厂有全套的设备，但是他们从未在竹材上使用过，所以我们对他们进行了培训。我们建了一个大的蒸煮缸，把长的竹材放进去。我们还培训了一些当地的工人，让他们帮助我们制作弯曲的竹材。在制作最终使用的竹材圆顶之前，我们先做了一部分等比例的样品模型，在大楼外面就能看到这些模型。

　　做这个模型是为了测试圆顶上的覆盖情况和圆顶上种植植被的情况。一切都要在这个等比例的模型上进行测试。最终我们得到了满意的结果——竹材圆顶符合要求，这之后我们才开始正式的建造。

Andy：真的很棒！这个故事非常美妙。这里面有些问题刚才您已经提到了，但是为了强调一下这些方面我还想再请您谈谈，印度馆的设计理念中您觉得最需要着重强调的是哪一点？

Naidu：印度馆的设计主要是想贴近这次世博会的主题来强调友善的环境。“城市，让生活更美好”的理念实际上是在强调环境的友善，要着眼未来。当然我们也要考虑经费的问题。我们的经费很有限，只有1000万，比不上欧洲那些场馆，他们的经费可能达到1亿4千万。所以，在有限的预算下找到合适的解决方案也是可持续建筑的一个理念。

　　当你对一件事情怀有很大兴趣时，就会有很多想法。于是我们想做一个绿色的屋顶，更接近自然，来阐述绿色生活的观点，同时减少了空调的使用空调，降低了能源消耗。所以这个屋顶上有水在流动，覆盖着郁郁葱葱的绿色。内部的温度也不是那么高，对空调制冷的需求也就减小了。

Andy：我的朋友曾经给我讲过在屋顶上建草坪的情况。当我看到这个圆顶上的草坪时，我认为它真是太棒了，它把能源的消耗降到了最低。接下来的问题是，在印度，竹子常见的应用有哪些方面？

Naidu：基本上主要用于乡村地区建造房屋或者是小桥。还有就是雨季的时候发洪水，会用竹子做一些竹筏。还有一些仪式上使用的建筑，比如我们的一些节日或是庆典的时候，有些就要用竹子来制作——用竹子覆盖表面，或是做一些装饰。

Andy：这的确很棒！最后一个问题：印度馆大部分是用竹子建造，这一设计如何强调绿色建筑在回收再利用以及减少二氧化碳排放方面的优势？

Naidu：首先我们用的是竹子，它本身就是一种来自自然界的材料，是可以被循环再利用的。竹子这种材料本身就回答了你的问题。另外，我们与大家分享了一个共同的理念，特别是在与中国政府、印度的建筑师和设计师还有哥伦比亚的Simon先生共同工作当中，那就是这一建筑本身已经证明了竹子作为一种建筑材料的优势——它取材方便而且很便宜。这样我们就可以考虑减低成本，而且竹材很柔韧灵活，在某些用途上要比钢材更为牢固。

Andy：是的。所以我觉得在地震时它的表现也会很好。

Naidu：是的，因为它易弯曲又柔软度，还很有韧性。

Andy：确实很奇妙。听起来优势很大。Naidu先生，非常感谢您接受采访！

Naidu：谢谢！

场馆概况

外形特征：集多元宗教特色于一身
设计灵感：印度最古老、最气势恢弘的建筑

　　展馆大门、广场及中央穹顶的设计灵感分别来自印度的“Siddi Syed”寺、兰普尔宫殿和桑奇佛塔。馆內设置由古至今的城市时空之旅，精彩演绎“城市与和谐”的主题。参观者可通过影像“时空隧道”游览四五千年前的古印度、中世纪印度和现代印度，感受印度丰富的传统文化、多样化的宗教信仰、传统与现代科技的发展、城市和农村的融合。

　　印度为本届世博会贡献的是一个有着巨型穹顶的场馆，穹顶的建筑材料几乎全是竹子。穹顶上面布满了数以千计的开花植物，内墙上则覆盖着来自印度各地的纱丽。

原文实录

Andy: This is Naidu, the designer of the Indian pavilion. And I’m Andy. I’m here to do an interview with Naidu on the Indian Pavilion. And my first question for you is, for the construction of the Indian pavilion, why was bamboo chosen as a building material?

Naidu: Well, when I first conceived the design of the dome. Why a dome? It’s because there is a common link with China and India, Buddhist link. And the dome is designed after Buddhist Monuments at Sanchi in India. So we took the same proportion as Sanchi Buddhist.

So when we wanted to make the dome and decided to make the dome, we were looking at different materials. One of them was terra cotta and one of them was paper tubes. That of course is bamboo. We want to use something which is sustainable and which is common to both countries, available in plenty and we can get scales of it. So bamboo offered all of these things. The challenge of it, of course, is that no one had done such a large span in bamboo and to use bamboo as a structural material.

But once we decided on it and we worked up the calculations, we found it is possible to do it. And then there doesn’t any experiment of course. And why is bamboo?  Of course it is because there is a lot of bamboo in China and there is a lot of bamboo in India also. And it’s used for housing and making small bridges. And China used to use a lot of bamboo for construction many years ago.

Then once we decided on bamboo, of course, we got all the experts to work as a team. We got Simon Velez from Columbia. He’s a world famous architect who’s always working with bamboo. So it was his guidance and help in the design. The basic concept was I started with a basket, a super basket. You can see that the dome in Indian architecture is a very common theme. Even the Taj Mahal is a dome, you know. We have many capitals which have a dome. For us, it was a very nice link with China – the bamboo and the dome.

Then the source of bamboo is from the local. The concept of sustainable architecture is to use local material, where it is available as close as possible. So we decided we make everything from what is available in India and close to Shanghai. That is the reason to use bamboo. You know Anji is about 2.5 to 3 hours away from Shanghai. And most of bamboo is just ideal for construction – they are strong, had the diameter width that we wanted and are available. We use bamboo which is about 100 millimeters in diameter. The wall thickness and also the distance give us a lot of strength.

The bending was another experiment we had to do.  We did it at a factory in Anji. Which is actually, they had all the machines but they never worked with bamboo. So we trained them and we built a special boiling vat for the bamboo, the long bamboo. And we also trained the workers to help with the construction. Then we actually made a full-scale mockup of one section before we started the actual bamboo dome. We have the mockup down in the plaza outside. To test the covering on the dome and the green plants on the cover. Everything has to be tested on the full-scale mock up. Then we are satisfied that it will work and everything with no problem. Then we start the construction.

Andy: That is very cool! Good story. On some of the questions, we already went over some of them. But I’m going to ask them just to emphasize the points. What concept does the design of the pavilion emphasize?

Naidu: The design of the pavilion emphasizes that it is environmentally friendly which is in keeping with the theme of the expo. That “Better City, Better Life” means it must be eco-friendly, we must think about the future, and we also keep in the expense. We worked with a limited budget. The budget was only 10 million as compared to maybe Europeans with 140 million. So to find a solution within a limited budget – it is one of the concepts to be sustainable building.

You have a lot of fun so you can do many things. Then we wanted to use a green roof also to illustrate the point to be able to live with nature and also access the isolation to bring down the energy requirement for the air conditioning. So there’s always water flowing on it and it’s a green color. The heat inside, temperature is much lower and the air conditioning needs are also reduced.

Andy: All right. My friend once told me about the uses of the green grass on top of the rooftop. And when I saw that dome, that’s what I thought. This is cool and this thing is what my friend was talking about, keeping the energy costs to a minimum. And my third question is what the common use of bamboo in India is?

Naidu: Primarily for housing and making small bridges in the village areas. They also use it in times of flood to make rafts because during the monsoon time. They also use bamboo for ceremonial structures, you know when we have festivals and they make structures using bamboo. They cover it up with decorative.

Andy: Wonderful. And the last question is the pavilion is made mostly out of bamboo, how does the design emphasize a greener environment such as recycling and reducing carbon dioxide.

Naidu: Since we use bamboo, it is a natural material and it can be recycled again. That itself answers the question then. And then we shared with everyone, especially when we worked together with the Chinese government, Indian architects and engineers and also Simon from Columbia, we have been able to bring about or illustrate the use bamboo as a structural material it grows everywhere and it’s not expensive. So we can think about low-cost and bamboo is so flexible material and in some ways stronger than steel.

Andy: Yeah, absolutely. I imagine it would be better in an earthquake.

Naidu: Yes, because it’s supple and bends. It has flexibility.

Andy: That’s fabulous. That sounds a lot better than other materials. All right.

Naidu, thank you very much for this interview. We really appreciate it.

Naidu: Thank you!